DISQUS

Consequence of Sound: http://consequenceofsound.net/2008/07/24/court-of-the-ginger-king-grunge-guilty-of-fraud/

  • Jay Ziegler · 1 year ago
    Ian Curtis also had epilepsy and had frequent seizures onstage during Joy Division's live shows. In fact, they were so bad, people began to believe they were intentional parts of the show that he fell into a heavy depression as well as withdrew from life, especially after his wife left him.

    She also suffered a miscarriage too, and that put the cherry on the cake for Curtis at 23 years old.

    This was a fun article.
  • Michael Roffman · 1 year ago
    I don't think the...uh...television really knows who he's dealing with.
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    Damn I can't argue much anything on here. I'v never had much respect for the genre since it did nothing for the musical landscape. Although calling kurt cobain a pussy was a bit much. The first wave of ablsolutley amazing grunge bands did effectively kill the arena rock BS they however lost what they stood for when cobain and staley died. And so now were left with the primadona that is chris cornell.
  • Blake Burchan · 1 year ago
    Russell,

    You are a fag. Jay Ziegler, this was not a fun article.

    Wow! I am glad I got that off my chest! And, I'm also glad that people in the 90's could listen to music that indulged their depressed collective sub-concious. Everyone was pissed off and the only thing they had to listen to were pseudo-Bowies minus the irony and a glistening fury of cock-tease pop idols.

    "The duty of youth is to challenge corruption."
    Kurt Cobain

    Grunge was a change in tone, not music. The reason everyone was on their ass when Cobain died was exactly what you said, he was a "pussy" who made the choice to die instead of completely sell out by living a normal life. Aka, the transition from young revolutionary to rich father. Now, hop on by Target and by a t-shirt from every band you mentioned in your article. Also, check out the new episode of "Former Rock God spoils his children and lives in an eccentric and contrived fantasy land" on MTV2. Its on after Sweet Sixteen.

    "I've always had a problem with the average macho man - they've always been a threat to me."
    Kurt Cobain

    Interesting! A backlash on the idea of masculinity, the very crux of most relevant male musicians. You know, Puddle of Mudddd, Nickleback, Nine Inch Nails, Marylin Manson, Emo, indie rock, and everything that has come out of England ever.

    I don't listen to grunge, and I don't buy 90s albums, but when American music's chest was ripped apart with boredom, it turns out its heart was still beating. Grunge.
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    ???? Nine Inch Nails= Nickleback ????????? explain. Oh and the everything that has come out of england ever was the dumbest thing iv ever heard. Uh Radiohead, Smiths,clash need i go on.... or really most indie. And Im pretty sure J was being sarcastic.... But like I said grunge had a chance to be something more and when kurt and lane offed themselves the genre faded and slid into this power pop bullshit we hear on the radio.
  • Jay Ziegler · 1 year ago
    Blake,

    You are a homophobic grunge fan.

    I happen to love grunge, but just like Tyler Durden said in "Fight Club," you don't know someone until you fight them. The same can be said here. This was fun because Russell brings up great argumentative points and a worthy adversary is always fun to argue with...whether you like their side of things or not. (Think Batman vs. The Joker)

    On top of that, I'm sick to death of Kurt Cobain's martyrdom. The guy was a depressed twenty seven year old decent songwriter who hated life. He didn't kill himself to "preserve good music." That's the biggest bucket of bullshit I've ever heard. He killed himself much like any other unhappy, depressed person would do: he had nothing left in the world for him anymore. Suicide isn't the answer, but damn, I'm sick of these "indie" assholes waving his death around like a badge of honor.

    Nirvana wasn't the only grunge band...yes, grunge was a corporate label to issue onto the Seattle scene, even though the big four all had different sounds.

    Soundgarden = old school heavy Black Sabbath influenced riffs
    Pearl Jam = soulful 60's rock, in the style of CCR and The Velvet Underground
    Alice In Chains = practically heavy metal with haunting melodies
    Nirvana = a poppy version of Black Flag and The Melvins...thrown in some Beatles.

    >>>“I’ve always had a problem with the average macho man - they’ve always been a threat to me.”
    Kurt Cobain

    Interesting! A backlash on the idea of masculinity, the very crux of most relevant male musicians. You know, Puddle of Mudddd, Nickleback, Nine Inch Nails, Marylin Manson, Emo, indie rock, and everything that has come out of England ever.>>>

    Yes, bands like the Thompson Twins, George Michael, The Clash, The Sex Pistols, The Beatles, Wham!, Culture Club, The Kooks, Pink Floyd and many many many other bands are simply too masculine for their own good. Right. Good call...not!

    You have great strength, but piss ass balance. Decent argument, but full of holes. God forbid we attack the things we enjoy out of life. Good article Russell...I love grunge music, but I love also to hear a different viewpoint from it once in a while.
  • Russell Michniak · 1 year ago
    I'm real conflicted, 18 yo Luke didn't have a problem with my article, I'm happy my effort against grunge was respected by grunge fans such as Jay and Mike(I hope every article is fun and gives them a counterpoint) but then I was called a fag by Blake, so it must be opposite day or something.

    Also, what constitutes an average macho man? Hopefully, Blake the philosopher can answer that.
  • Michael Roffman · 1 year ago
    Russ is an agent of chaos.. like me! And you know the thing about chaos is... it's free!
  • todd · 1 year ago
    this guy is a complete moron. It's great that you want to be the howard stern of cos but like him your just a moron. Kurt Cobain's a pussy. ooooh how shocking. So much for your talented writers on this site
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    Actually the point of the article is to debate a common thought among music. Even though I argued his last one at least I was articulate so instead of being a faggy troll lets see if you have enough IQ to actually debate someone.
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    I am going to disagree with the 90's as a total shit decade for music. Russ admit it the big 4 of grunge were good (ok relevent in musical terms) and as blake said they did change the tone of music. Wether or not that is a good thing right now is your judgment. Personally I hate how it spawned Emo and mindless ass rock with Nickleshit.

    The 90's had landmark albums and music changing bands. After Alice In Chains stopped, Eddie Vedder calmed down, Soundgarden disbanded, and Kurt killed himself it left bands like Live and Bush to fuck up what GOOD bands did. However there were bands like Radiohead,My Bloody Valentine, and The White Stripes to continue and IMPROVE on what grunge had.

    To continue with the whole 90's a shit decade argument. The 90's yeilded a return to soaring melodies and cryptic lyrics with OK Computer, a return to hardcore with a thought with At The Drive In's "Relationship of Command", it also saw the rise of hip-hop with Dre, Pac, Biggie, Tribe, and Jay-Z. Fuck even the over-the-top egos of Billy Corgan and the gallager brothers released albums that are always put on "best albums lists" in Siamiese Dream and Definetly Maybe/(What's The Story) Morning Glory.

    So as far 90's sucking as a musical decade, I diagree however people making grunge out as musical saviors from the Ratt's of the world are full of shit and will be tried in the court of the ginger king...lol.
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    Oh also showed a return to garage rock with The White Stripes and a HUGE return to lo-fi with Pavement, Neutral Milk Hotel, and Guided By Voices.
  • Russell Michniak · 1 year ago
    hahah, Todd thought I was trying to be shocking, hilarious, and I'm trying to be like Howard Stern, also hilarious. As for Luke, I don't ever acknowledge credit for something I'm arguing against, it breaks the whole mythos of the "Ginger King", but the 90s being weak I do believe, but you have to understand it is weak to the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. All the 90s did was to continue further on ideas or bring back trends. I look forward to hearing you attempt to critique my upcoming articles.
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    eh 80's is debatable... it was hard to find something i disagreed with enough to argue with so i took that one and ran with it.
  • eli · 1 year ago
    you love to argue don't you?
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    who doesn't?
  • bobbyrisigliano · 1 year ago
    I am in agreeance with all of the article until I noticed not one mention of Alice in Chanis or Soundgarden. I discredited this article now!
  • Luke MacLeod · 1 year ago
    I did with laynes death and chris cornell being a bigger ego than kanye. And yes he is that big a dousche.